How to record your online poker table

Moved article to here...
http://www.pokerstuff-bondy10.com

CORRECT TO CHECK OR NOT?

A simple enough question and your views will be greatly appreciated. I am playing a double stack sng on Titan,the blinds are 50/100 and i am in the big blind with 5100 chips and there are six of us left.We all have about the same chips.The table folds to the small blind who limps in and i am sitting with Kd Jd.The player in the small blind had limped alot and had limped in the small blind on a couple of occasions so i decided to raise and put in another 350(pot now 550) and he calls.I need to point out here that this lad has not shown down a single hand yet so i don't have much info on him. The flop is Qc 9c 6s,he checks....So the question is check or bet? I have one over card and gutshot.I will put in the comments what i did and why.Interesting to see whether you agree or not.

POKER SCREENSAVERS

POKER SCREENSAVER

Latest Donk-Out

I was playing an MTT on MuppetStars the other day with 3600 runners, there are 423 left and i had been a bit card dead with not alot of stealing opps.I have 10000 chips left,blinds are 500/1000 with 100 ante and i am in the big blind.One of the table donks(with 22000) DOUBLE RAISES....yes he was a DRD(so what range of hands do we put him on?)I have jack 8 and the table folds round to me and i call.We know J8 is not a good hand but it was likely that he had a small pair,KQ etc and hopefully i had 2 live cards.The flop comes 10 8 2 rainbow....the only hands i would be concerned with on this flop are sets of 8s or 2s against this donk so i go all in for my remaining 8-9 thousand or so and he insta calls with...44...river is a 4 and out i go.Comments on either play please.

poker screen savers

Should Women Play Poker?

Now it's been said that i am a male chauvinist pig! Can you believe it? "Well yes Bondy, we can." Now be fair,that's simply not true. I strongly believe that there is a place for women in this world and that place is in the kitchen because..well..they are much better at doing dishes,washing,cooking and baking than men,so there you have it,i am admitting that women are better than men at some things so i cannot be a male chauvinist pig. Ok, now that's been resolved,should women play poker..eh..HELL NO! Their brain does not have the capacity for it.
Here is an example; I was playing an sng on donkeystars and unfortunately there was a women at the table.."Serving drinks Bondy?" Eh no, "Giving it a wipe down?" Eh no,no she was trying to play poker online. Here's what happened...i have a stack of about 4000 under the gun,6 handed and she is making pretty patterns with her chips of about 750 on the button(which she was trying to sew on her blouse.)I have AA and with the blinds at 100/50 raise to 400 and she calls leaving herself with 350.The flop comes A 2 4 rainbow,i check,she goes all in and i call..she has A3 and the turn produces a 5 to give her the straight and the board doesnt pair so she takes the pot.
At this point she types in the chat box."phew." Hmmmm,"Did you put me on ace 2 pre flop?" i asked." No, i put you on AK."she replied.........Eh..........NUFF SAID.
Leave your comments on this matter to see if you agree that women should not play poker.

Poker ScreenSavers

I WAS WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes its happened, i played a hand wro...wro....wro........wron......WRONG. In a sng on FullDonk i am on the button with 1160 chips or so with 6 runners left,the table folds round to me.."You look round to me Bondy!" Eh..Cheers..i have qj and the blinds are 60/120 and decide to raise to 360 leaving me with only 800.The guy in the big blind re pops me and i know this lad has a monster from previous plays hes made so i have to fold,he shows me KK. I decide to push next hand and run into JJ and i am out.
So what did i do wrong and what should i have done(By the way,i did EVERYTHING wrong)
Let me know in the comments..cheers

Poker ScreenSavers

What Poker Site Is Best? Part 2

In part one i said that PokerStars was probably the best site to join for a few reasons BUT this maybe unfair to some other good sites....."You saying you were wrong Bondy?" DON'T be silly! that doesn't happen much......"TWO EX WIVES BONDY!"....
Eh....Moving on...some players(male only) might find that after several bad beats on PokerStars that this site is not for them, so where to go?
I had alot of success on PokerRoom and Mansion but their blind structure is not that good compared to others BUT the advantage with Mansion(Ipoker network) was the stability of the software.This is a must because unstable software costs you money.This happened to me on PokerRoom in a $100 30 seat SNG when,with 13 left and sitting comfortable i was dealt AA.. there was a raise to me and i re raised which was flat called....the flop was 8 high and the caller bet into me... i re raised and at that point the software logged me out.When i got back in the kid was sitting with my chips and i was now short stacked..he told me he had 99 and my hand was folded due to the disconnect. I received my stake back after complaining but after a few more disconnections i left the site and i was not the only one who had this problem.
Titan keeps giving me free money..$10 a time..so i cant knock them! and they do have double stack SNGs which make up for the poor blind structure..so if DonkeyStars isn't for you then i would try Titan,although my friend and mentor Stumpy is flying on FullTilt and seems happy there. "You mentioned male only earlier Bondy?" Yes, this is because if women are playing poker(NOT TO BE RECOMMENDED) then they will be dishing out the bad beats instead of dishing out your tea....which is what they should be doing. nuff said.

Phil Hellmuth v Tom Dwan

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Poker ScreenSavers

Poker ScreenSavers

RakeBack Sites

Rakeback sites offer you incentives to join various poker rooms,this maybe in the form of you making a small deposit in return for cash deposited in your poker room account(the best one for this was via POKERFATHER;you deposited $10 or more into Titan poker and they gave you $50!)
At the moment RaketheRake have alot of offers and the Betfair one seems good,giving you 40% rake back plus a bonus that pays out $10 for every 300 betfair points up to $1750. Basically a$25 Sng with $2.50 rake earns you 35 betfair points.
I cant really comment on other rake back sites as i havnt used them BUT these are good and are definately worth visiting before downloading any poker sites.

What Poker Site Is Best? Part 1 !!

The burning question....Which is the best poker site? Well its a matter of opinion, as everyone will have their own favorite site.So how to choose? The main candidates are:
POKERSTARS,FULLTILT,THE IPOKER NETWORK,PARTY POKER,ONGAME NETWORK,CAKE NETWORK.
The Ipoker network contains sites such as TITAN,MANSION,WILLIAM HILL AND NOBLE(to name but a few)

The largest site is POKERSTARS;In my opinion this site has by far the best multi table tournaments with guaranteed prize pools.Some of the fields are huge but tend to whittle down very quickly!They also have some decent freerolls so you can win cash for no outlay.No matter what level you want to play at be it $1 SNGs up to $2000 or cash tables ranging from $0.01/$0.02 blinds to $200/$400 blinds,this is probably the site for you.If you want a quick SNG then you'll be seated and started in seconds on here due to the high volume of players and this applies to cash also.
Whatever version of poker you want to play,its available here and you won't have to wait long to play.......unfortunately the same cant be said of TITAN AND MANSION(IPOKER NETWORK)They do have some decent MTTs but another let down with this network is the blind structure. PokerStars and Fulltilt have the better blind structures by far and their software is very good-looking with plenty of choice for changing the layouts to suit yourself.A let down with Fulltilt is that numerous players have disconnection problems which can cost you money...the same cannot be said for PokerStars,so IN MY OPINION choose PokerStars.

Poker ScreenSavers

Poker ScreenSavers

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EH.......WOMEN,TAKE NOTE.

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What Would You Do?

Ok,i was playing a SNG on MuppetStars and it was the first hand,i am in the small blind with AJ,there were three limper's for 20 chips and i limp and the Big blind checks...............The flop is Qc 10c 2h............Everyone checks.......This tells me that know one has a queen,set or two pair as they would have to bet this flop with five runners...........turn is the Kd..........i now have the nut straight and bet 80 into 100 pot and the BB calls and the rest fold......Now i suspect that he either has a jack(so he is up and down)or a flush draw....The river brings the 9h so the board is now Qc 10C 2h Kd 9h........So there is a pot of 260 and myself and the BB have 1400 chips left....i am first to act now and sitting with the nuts,so how much to bet? Have a think and then look at the comments,my friend and mentor Stumpy agreed with my play,well he would cos i was right as usual!so what do you think?

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ScreenSavers

Poker ScreenSavers

I've decided to upload some poker related screensavers i have come across on various web sites,so i will publish a few a day under the title "ScreenSavers!"(no shit!)To save them just click on the picture and then right click "set as desktop."

Ever Wanted To Know How To Shuffle Chips,Here You Go

I Know Its A Women Playing Poker,But its Vicky

Online Cheating-Caught Out

I was playing a SNG on DonkeyStars when i noticed that 3 of the donks were from the same town(i googled this place and found that it had 3000 inhabitants and 1000000 reindeer!)so after carefully watching them donk out and pass chips to each other i decided to contact MuppetStars and shop these donks.
Now these donks didn't take kindly to being accused of cheating...."Did they not Bondy?" No they didnt.AND they liked it even less when i asked them if they could squeal like a pig,had rocking chairs and pretty mouths......"Why did they not like that Bondy?".....Apparently they dont like rocking chairs. They didn't like it when i asked if rogering reindeer was on the menu that night.......Apparently they only do sheep.
I didnt like it when one of the donks did my AA with 64,he called my reraise with it and hit bottom pair(4) on the flop and shipped against my bet and hit a 6 on river........Reindeer shagger.......I recieved an email from PokerDonk support saying that they had been cheating(NO SHIT) and i recieved a refund..........Alls well that ends well.

This Guy Makes Money? Please use The comments!

Done With A Full House!

I was playing in a sng on JokerStars when i was dealt pocket nines in the big blind.
There was six of us left...............when i say six of us,i actually mean myself and five donks.........The blinds were 75/150 and i have 1800 chips. A donk(with 3000) limps in first position and the rest fold leaving a pot of 375.Flop is
Ac,9s,10s...I bet 300 and he calls......................Just read somewhere that certain people think poker is 90% luck and 10% skill......Well people who think like that generally manage to get ALL their chips in with the worse hand 90% of the time and NEED to get lucky 90% of the time.....nuff said.
Sorry,ranting a bit..back to the hand. Now i don't like his call and when the jack of spades hits on the turn i like it even less. Now,what is he holding? Well i put him on a draw which narrows his hands down alot. Flush draw? If he was sitting with the ace x of spades he would have re raised me on the flop,same applies to a set of aces or 10s for that matter,so he could be holding a hand like 78,JQ or the worse scenario is 7,8 of spades or kq of spades..maybe he has a hand like king 8 of spades?
This lad had sucked out with a horrible flop call with 10s of an all in by a lad holding aces and he rivered a 10 earlier so that was the only info i had on him other than he had called a couple of pre flop raises after limping but had not shown these hands.
I bet 500 and he calls again and the river is an ace which now gives me the full house and at this point i typed into the chatbox...king queen of spades? but no reply...crap...i bet 400 and he re raises all in..i have to call now and he shows the king queen of spades..................................SSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTTT!!!!!
Another hand or two that were possible for donks here were JQ or KJ with the Q or K being spades but the KJ was unlikely.So he had limped with KQ in first position and managed to end up with straight flush.....Great....What a lucky plonker But at least he got the rest of his chips in with best hand....TWAT...Let me know how you would have played this please and make sure you agree with my play as 90% of the time i am right.

Poker Odds Calculator

http://www.cardschat.com/poker-odds-calculator.php
If your interested in calculating poker odds for ANY situation,go to the above link and install the software,drag and drop any cards to any of the seats and comunity board and click calculate to see the odds.For those who havnt read my blog post on how to calculate odds this is alot easier!

Online Tells Part 3

There is a nasty virus spreading across online poker sites that is far more potent than swine flu and yet there has been no effort to quarantine it.This virus tends to attack those with no brain or poker thought process and leaves them in a zombie-like state,"You mean like the films Bondy?" YES,just like that,in fact i believe Full Tilt Poker has commissioned remakes of these zombie films with the first of a trilogy due for release soon,Dawn Of The Donk.This will be followed by Donk Of The Dead and ending with my favorite,Night Of The Living Donk.
"So whats this virus called Bondy?" Well,i call it the DRD virus but it is more commonly known as the Double-Raising Donk virus."Is it contagious Bondy?" Yes,very,
but fear not as you have boosted your immune system just by reading this.
The favorite hand for the DRD is KQ followed by medium pocket pairs and AJ,although some of the more seriously infected will do it with suited connectors and rag aces.
For those of us who are not infected this is a godsend as we are getting information for nothing and makes it easy for us to narrow down their hand if we are involved in a pot with them. Lets assume the blinds are 15/30 and the DRD has raised to 60 and you have called,the flop comes Queen high and the DRD checks...Well he probably hasn't got KQ and is likely holding AJ or medium pocket pair so bet and he will probably fold.
There is a time and a place for the double raise,normally when the blinds are big but it should never be used at low levels,5% of poker players will agree with me and the other 95% will be wrong,so don't end up with a staring roll in Night of the living Donk...stay virus free..trust me,I'm right.....as usual.
PS, only 5% of poker players make money playing poker...nuff said.

Women Stay Away From Cars.........And Poker.

No women playing poker here,rightly so.

Online Tells,Part 2

So we've already decided that donks dont have the capacity to apply thought to poker so they will gladly give you info about themselves without knowing it if you kinda
"chat them up." "Chat them up Bondy?" NO,i didnt mean use your special chat up lines that make the ladies go weak at the knees,like..."Excuse me,your standing on my penis." Lines like that should be kept for that wonderful lady you meet in a bar and think,"Hey i'm gonna spend the rest of my night with her." No, lines like that are to special to waste on donks. What i mean is,say we have a donk who has just chased a gutshot all the way to the river, against someone who has bet the pot on every street, and manages to hit his gutshot,then, maybe type Well Played(WP) into the chatbox.(tongue in cheek of course)This has an affect on the rest of the table,because now they are all thinking what a nice guy.....and they would be right,because i am. Now you can ask them owt you like.."Ask them out bondy?" NO i dont mean ask them out on a date.This would'nt work anyway for two reasons;
1.There are probably no females on the table.
2. None of the blokes probably take it up the arse....unless their from Brighton or in Strangeways.
"Dont think there is a gay in Strangeways Bondy"...................Eh..............
......stranGewAYs....nuff said.
No i mean ask them if any of them has read any good books for instance..At this point remove any drinks you have near your keyboard..i will explain later...You will get some strange replys in the chatbox like; The Beano, Peter and Jane and Alice in Wonderland..We meant poker books but the donks hav'nt read any so now we know of other donks at the table before we have even seen them show down a hand,a good instant tell.
"Why move the drinks Bondy?"...Our book question may give us another tell on someone else...someone who can play or atleast think...if a player types in these books for example;Scott Fischman,An online ace or the Dan Harrington series,you may get a shock and knock your drink over your keyboard because you were not expecting a reply such as that...this would mean your lass spending valuable time cleaning it up(time she could have spent ironing,washing or baking cakes etc)and you dont want that.
"Do we have to chat to them Bondy.Cant we just wait and see who the donks are?"
Well yes you could but they will be chatting among themselves and you might feel like a foreskin at a Bar Mitzvah,kinda left out and you don't want to get bored so remember to chat to them,ok.
More later.

Online Tells-Part One

A tell is a mannerism or action that someone does that lets you know if they are telling the truth or not.This works fine in live play because you can see the person your up against; i'll give you an example-playing at the casino,i was sat next to a lad who's hand shook badly when ever he was putting chips in a pot and usually he had the "nuts" when he did this.Later i noticed that when putting chips into a pot he was involved with, his hand was steady as a rock and at the show-down he was bluffing! So if he was bluffing,his hand was steady and if he had a good hand,he shook!
So what about online tells? Well you can learn alot just by looking at the screen names of you opponents;for instance,if someone has the screen name PokerKingAA,then,he probably isnt a poker king,infact he will likely be a donk;same applies to anyone with Poker in their name. Also have a look to see where their from;
FRANCE = Not met a good one YET!
ITALY = Not met a good one YET!
GERMANY = 75% Bad(can be deceiving,watch closely)
SPAIN = 95% Bad (Odd one needs to be watched)
USA = well they invented the game so we wont call them Donks.
UNITED KINGDOM = PROFESSIONALS
SCANDINAVIANS = Hmm,Lots of very bad players BUT some very good to(watch carefully)
Thats it for part one...

Woman Trying To Use Electronic Gadget

Oh no,here we see a woman trying to use a complicated electronic piece of hardware to play poker online.............No no no pet,The electronic gadget for you is the microwave found in the kitchen.Please stick to using this and doing word-search.You know it makes sense.........

Foresight,Could Save You Alot Of Chips On The Turn

Going to veer away alittle from poker with this one,so picture this...You arrive home from a couple of hours work-out(several laps of the pool table and a press-up against the bar) to hear a male Geordie voice coming out of your surround sound speakers....."Alan Shearer interview" you think,BUT........The voice utters more words,oh no.................."Day 35, 10.23 am,Marco is mincing round the garden" NIGHTMARE!..................................YES, YOUR LASS IS USING THE REMOTE CONTROL... Which means garbage displayed on your 50 inch lcd display that normally shows only Sky Sports,Top Gear and Men And Motors......BUT WAIT.don t go in all guns blazing;Yes she is using a technical piece of electronic hardware,designed by men for womens benefit,"Womens benefit Bondy?" you ask..well of course,to save them having to get up and change the channel for you.

Tact and foresight are required here cos you noticed that your tea has not been provided yet and going in all guns blazing could deny you of it.So what to do?Remember,women are sensetive creatures and dont respond well to being denied the use of technical equipment,(just ask any of my ex wives)so proceed into the room saying "Hi honey,im home" and carefully remove the remote from the arm of the chair,at which point she will ask what you are doing............Point out that its a technical electronic gadget with buttons on that if not pressed in the right way could break a nail,and that you know she is more than capable of using such gadgets but you are looking out for her....at this point return the tv to Sky Sports and suggest she practices using buttons on the microwave( a device for steaming waist watcher meals)as these buttons are flat and have more of a space between them so breaking a nail is unlikely.

Now she will go and prepare your tea...problem solved...........So remember to think ahead before rushing in with that call of a flop reraise with top pair,iffy kicker, without thinking what it could cost you on the turn!!

Choices!

I had a choice to make last night in a SNG,call an all in or fold?


We all have to to choose between 2 things quite often and more often than not there is a right and wrong choice/answer. For example, chicken pie or mince pie? Or Jen Harman or Jen tilley?


The situation was this..... Myself and PLAYER B(cant remember his screen name) had just over 3000 chips after both doubling through donks! He had re raised a donk who called him and the flop had come 10 7 3 rainbow,the donk bet the pot,he reraised All in and the donk............................Just to clarify something,those of you who chose mince pie were wrong,the correct choice was chicken pie.......................called showing jack 10,PLAYER B had KK and they held!! I had doubled through in similar style.

So onto the hand, PLAYER B,with blinds 15/30 raises to 150 from 1st position, i have QQ on the button and reraise to 450.....................................................Just to clarify something else,for those of you who chose Jen Harman....you were wrong....Those of you who chose Jen Tilley are also wrong........The correct answer is Vicky Coren.......................................He sits for quite a while and flat calls.The flop is J 3 2 rainbow and he checks.... i bet 750 and he re raises all in......so fold or call????
Well can we rule out JJ? Could he have made this play with 10 10, A K,maybe.
Has he been slow playing AA, Or just called with KK pre flop to see if an ace hits?
Could he have QQ also?
i had narrowed his hands down to these 6, but which one?
You have a stab at it and let me know if it was chicken pie or mince!

A Donk In Action,his Name Is Bhudachrist1

Well i was donked again by Bhudachrist1,displayed above here not in action.I was dealt AA and raised to 150 when the blinds were 15/30...Bhudadonk1 called having 1050 chips left(after donking a few off) and the big blind re raised all in for 3000.I also go all in and Donkeychrist1 decides to go all in also.......with 8 6.......hmmm. the big blind has JJ.......hmmm........ Well the flop is 8 high and the river produces a 6 to give Bhudamuppet1 the pot.......Now i hear you all say,"well he obviously put you on 8 4 and the big blind on 8 5."And you would be right if you were'nt wrong. You see for him to have put us on any hands at all he would have to have THOUGHT........and being a donk,well, they dont think. Try and put yourself in the mind of a donk for a minute,go on, have a look around in there............................"pretty empty in there bondy" i hear you say, "infact i was bouncing around in the vastness of nothing" i hear you say..Yup,sad isnt it.So its official,Donks have no thought process and well,no brain,so perhaps they should invest in a dabber and take up bingo as their time and money would be better spent.

Latest Donk Out

I am in a SNG on poker stars,blinds are 50/100, i have 1300 chips in 2nd position and we are down to 6 players.the blinds are about to increase to 75/150 in under a minute and i am dealt pocket nines.The table donk is 1st to act and raises to 300.Now this donk had been raising with rag aces and suited connectors and his chip stack had been up and down like a Jane Fonda workout. Considering this and the fact that i would be in the blinds soon,calling wasnt an option in my opinion and anyway i figured i was ahead so decided to push all in.But the other 4 players are yet to act i hear you say and may come along for the ride....true,but they would need to wake up with aces or kings really and the rest of the table was pretty solid.
So now there is 1650 in the pot and donkey boy has 1500 chips left and after the rest of the table folds he insta calls with ace 2!needless to say the turn produces an ace and out i go.Was my play correct? well 90% of people would agree with me and the other 10% would be clearly wrong.Have a think about it and let me know if you are right or wrong!

Odds And Outs

Outs are the number of cards you could hit to win a pot.If you know how many outs you have then you can calculate whether you are getting the correct pot odds to chase those outs.Lets ssay you are sitting with the AK of clubs and the flop is 2of clubs,4 of clubs,6 of hearts.There is 400 in the pot and you are heads up with a player who has bet 200 into you now making the pot 600,it costs you 200 to maybe win 600(3 to 1) so should you call? Lets for arguments sake put the player on 88... so you have 9 clubs you could hit to make your flush,3 kings and 3 aces left you could also hit to win the hand giving you 15 outs...You know of 5 cards for sure... the AK in your hand and the 3 on the flop,52 cards in a deck minus the 5 we know leaves 47 cards... you have 15(your outs) good cards out of the 47 and 32 bad cards so we divide the bad cards by the good(32/15) which gives us a little over 2 to 1 and because we are getting 3 to 1 in the pot then we are definately getting the odds to call. So to work out if you are getting the correct odds on a flop to call, subtract your outs from 47 to give you the number of bad cards and divide the bad cards by the good to give you your odds basically.

SHARKSCOPE

Sharkscope is an online sitngo data base of most online players covering most sites.You get 5 free searches a day or unlimited if you upgrade for a small fee.Just log onto the site and type the screen name of the player you want to check on in the search box and select the site you are on from the drop down menu. It will list their winnings/losses and rating. Very useful tool.

The Newcastle Poker Forum Did This,Its Good So watch it!

How To Play Pocket Jacks!

HOW TO PLAY SIT N GOS

Sit n gos are mini tournaments and can be profitable if you play them right. I advise anyone who plays sngs to read Scott Fischman's An Online Ace,as this book has a great section on sngs.
Basically you play them very tight to start with,only limping in with small,medium pairs in the hope of flopping a set,if you dont they are an easy fold.Raising 5 times the blind with your big hands..aces,kings queens, jacks and ace king,but the object early on is survival. You also limp with suited aces in the hope of flopping a flush or atleast getting a cheap draw to one and thats it. These are the only hands you are playing early on.Consider yourself short stacked(which you will be alot of the time) when you have 8 big blinds or less and at this stage you are ALL IN,hoping to steal the blinds or double up.When there are 4 players left(bubble time) you are ALL IN or fold,you will bubble alot but win more this way to as your aim is to have a massive chip lead by the time the bubble bursts and win the tournament.Thats it BASICALLY but read the book and learn the finer points,its worth it.

brilliant foresight from donk

i was playing a sit and go on pokerstars,i am in 3rd position with 1400 chips,blinds were 25/50 and i am dealt pocket aces. i raise to 250 and i am called by DonkeyDonk who has 1000 chips.... the flop came 10c,6d,2s.a nice flop. there was 575 in the pot so i bet 450 and was reraised all in by Donkey Donk...... its 350 more to me and an easy call.......he shows jack 4 of diamonds? the turn came diamond as did the river to give him the flush and the pot...........HOW I LAUGHED! I wondered what had made him make this inspired move,so i polightley asked him to explain to us lesser mortals. When he explained it made perfect sense,you see he had obviously put me on jack 3 so figured he was ahead and at worse would split the pot.............well it made sense to me,brilliant play and well read by him. After this insight into the poker mind of a genius i asked him if i could forward his address to friends of mine so they to could learn from him and he kindly agreed,so you can write to him at...........
DonkeyDonk,
Mule House,
Donkey Road,
AssVille,
Donkey Land
DON KEY.
Please drop him a line and learn from a master.......more tales later.